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Idea: Remove boost:shared_ptr
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Would anyone be against us copying the shared_ptr implementation
internally into OCIO? That would let us make the OCIO boost dependency optional, which would let it compile on a plain-vanilla OSX install. The only other part of the code that relies on boost is the testing framework, which is already if def'd. So if the user has boost, you'll get the testing. If the user doesnt have boost, it will skip testing. Thoughts? -- Jeremy
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Review: Added missing role enum to python
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Trivial addition, exposed ROLE_DEFAULT to python.
commit 82dd5a4666f7c5456361e9ec7d78107742e5b427 -- Jeremy
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Re: ocio_core_tests linking issue on Ubuntu 10.10
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
I haven't seen that issue before, but it looks like it's related to
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the testing framework (which relies on boost). I'll try to get an Ubuntu machine up in the next few days for testing. But... in the meantime, you can disable compilation of the testing app by editing CMakeList.txt (in the root dir), and commenting out the following line: (Add a "#" to make the line a comment). #add_subdirectory (src/core_tests) I can add this as a command-line configuration option if the hack has to live beyond the week. Please let me know if compilation succeeds with this line commented out? Thanks! -- Jeremy
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Andrew Hunter <and...@aehunter.net> wrote:
Hey everyone,
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New OCIO users email list
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
We're starting to get some actual OCIO users, so it's time to start a
new mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/ocio-users This will focus on issues related to color profile development, artist workflows, best practice, etc. Please sign up if you're interested. Thanks! -- Jeremy
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ocio_core_tests linking issue on Ubuntu 10.10
Andrew Hunter <and...@...>
Hey everyone,
I've encountered a linker issue on Ubuntu 10.10 with ocio-0.7.0. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on whats going on? Linking CXX executable ocio_core_tests /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [src/core_tests/ocio_core_tests] Error 1 make[1]: *** [src/core_tests/CMakeFiles/ocio_core_tests.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 Has anyone else been able to successfully build 0.7 on Ubuntu? Cheers, Andrew
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Updated Color Profiles
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Color profiles suitable for OCIO 0.7 have been posted, along with
basic documentation. See https://sites.google.com/site/opencolorio/profiles for additional information. Note 1: Thanks to Joseph Slomka for putting these together! Note 2: The docs on the spi-anim profile will be posted tomorrow. Note 3: An additional profile, nuke-default, will be posted later this week. It provides OCIO emulation for the current default Nuke color processing. -- Jeremy
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Re: Reference !<Colorspace>
Joseph Slomka <jsl...@...>
Rod,
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This is my partial follow-up to Jeremy's response. A reference space is a useful concept and Imageworks will use them for AMPAS IIF implementation. The colorimetry will match the specification but how that will be arrived at will be subject to show requirements. . It is going to be a colorspace that will be tailored per production. OCIO is being cast in ICC like terms that aren't fully relevant. OCIO lacks a color management module portion to handle the gamut mapping and other conversions done in an ICC CMM. OCIO has a different design. It is a framework. Pieces of management can be bolted together without anything 'to clever' happening. OCIO does not specify colorimetry; It is necessary to explicitly document the colorimetric meaning of your transformations. This makes OCIO simplistic and gives the control needed to create any case. OCIO provides the flexibility to implement reference spaces as colorspaces. It also leaves you fully free to define that role as you see fit allowing many individual color pipeline to exist. -Joseph
-----Original Message-----
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Re: Review: Inital pass at searchpath impl
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
There's a lot of good ideas here, it's taken me a bit of time to think
through the implications. I'm going to be out of town for the remainder of the week, perhaps we could try an internet call early next week to discuss these specifics further? (Skype, iChat, etc). Many of these points can probably be hashed out easier live, and then we can summarize our thoughts back to the list. What about per shot balance grades and look / creative grades, I would cry if I needed to create a zip ocio profile per shot to do this. > Then re-syncing these profiles would be a nightmare.Agreed. Under no circumstances are we going to make per-shot looks complicated to use. We're in the same boat here. Your approach to implementing per-shot looks - using environmentJS: I think it will be preferable when possible to minimize the use of envvars.MH: Can you elaborate on this? variables within search paths - is clever. However, I'm not sold. The portion I'm concerned about is the use of environment variables as a communications mechanism. For an application (such as a compositor) where you're not changing show / shot / sequence at runtime the use of envvars is no big deal. For example, say you have a per-shot display lut (/job/$SHOT/.../shotgrade.3dl). You could run a script which sets up the shot environment, launch the APP, and everything just works. However, consider an image-viewing tool which needs to flipbook multiple shots (or whole sequences) back to back. I.e., the display transform, as queried from OCIO, would be different based on the shot name. Would this approach be possible using an envvar mechanism? I dont believe so. Envvars are commonly locked down at launch time. And, even if you could modify it at runtime as playback was in progress, would you want to? How would you notifiy OCIO that it had changed? This seems like a tricky implementation, and strikes me as going down the path of evil. I would prefer to promote this concept of 'variables' to be an explicit communications mechanism, rather then using envvars as a back-door. Alternate implementation options include: * a config->setVariable option, where variables were available for use in color transforms. (They could even retain the $SHOW $SHOT syntax). This way the OCIO plugin could set it as needed, and with the python API exposed in client apps the list of variables could even be amended with facility code, as needed at runtime! * Alternatively, with a less stateful implementation the variables / arguments could be passed along in the config->getProcessor call. This may be preferable to those computer scientists among us. Either way, this passing of variables as arguments to a transforms is half of the work towards allowing fully dynamic colorspaces. (The other 1/2 being the plugin API to define the lists of transforms at runtime). Perhaps this is good reason to move forward on both ASAP? -- Jeremy
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Re: Review: OCIO namespace update
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Excellent, thanks.
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@mac.com> wrote: Sorry I never noticed that section in the main CMakelists file, it all looks good.
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Re: Review: OCIO namespace update
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
Sorry I never noticed that section in the main CMakelists file, it all looks good.
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"Jeremy Selan" <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Can you be more specific? Which CMakeLists file, the root one or the --
Sent from my phone.
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Re: Review: OCIO namespace update
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Can you be more specific? Which CMakeLists file, the root one or the
one in src/core? The main CMake file has this chunk, # Set the default namespace if(NOT OCIO_NAMESPACE) set(OCIO_NAMESPACE OpenColorIO CACHE STRING "Specify the master OCIO C++ namespace: Options include OpenColorIO OpenColorIO_<YOURFACILITY> etc." FORCE) endif(NOT OCIO_NAMESPACE) What is not working for you? Can you nuke your build dir and try again 'fresh'? -- Jeremy On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@mac.com> wrote: I think your missing a set() line in the CMakeLists.txt eg.
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Re: Review: OCIO namespace update
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
I think your missing a set() line in the CMakeLists.txt eg. .. set(OCIO_VERSION "${OCIO_VERSION_MAJOR}.${OCIO_VERSION_MINOR}.${OCIO_VERSION_PATCH}") set(OCIO_NAMESPACE OpenColorIO) .. Other than that it LGTM. .malcolm
On 27/10/2010, at 9:16 AM, Jeremy Selan wrote:
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Re: Review: Updated cmake_minimum_required to 2.8
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
LGTM
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On 27/10/2010, at 9:14 AM, Jeremy Selan wrote:
We already required cmake 2.8 (for ExternalProject usage), now this is explicit.
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Re: Review: nuke plugin crash fix
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
LGTM
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On 27/10/2010, at 9:14 AM, Jeremy Selan wrote:
Nuke plugins wont crash if the specified $OCIO is invalid.
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Re: Review: Inital pass at searchpath impl
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
We've just started testing the current version of OCIO at Imageworks,Can you elaborate a little on what was confusing. * An OCIO profile is not just a single configuration file in isolation+1 to a self contained file * Consider, what would the OCIO world look like if we 'locked down' aWhat about per shot balance grades and look / creative grades, I would cry if I needed to create a zip ocio profile per shot to do this. Then re-syncing these profiles would be a nightmare. * With this model, the "single file" profile + luts representationLet me describe how I would like to see OCIO setup on a show. * central show OCIO profile describing - working/reference space - display devices - colorspace definitions - luts (relative to this profile) * show/seq/shot (cdl) balance grades as separate xml on disk * show/seq/shot (cdl/lut/spline) look / creative grades as separate files on disk I could see this setup being forked and lock at different stages of production (prepro/onset, trailer, theatrical). Onset when tech and human resources are limited, being able to setup this up with minimal hassle would be ideal. For simplicity sake you had some cdl balance grades layout like this. /job/config/ocio/balance_approved.xml /job/myseq/config/ocio/balance_approved.xml /job/myseq/someshot/config/ocio/balance_approved.xml /job/myseq/othershot/config/ocio/balance_approved.xml Your search path would be in the central config "/job/$SEQ/$SHOT/config/ocio:/job/$SEQ/config/ocio:/job/config/ocio" Changing your $SEQ and $SHOT would allow switching between grades. This is not to say that you might merge this into a more involved system when in house, maybe without using env vars. eg. a Transform plugin which picks up the approved grade from a database. I think it's important to support both ways of working. But you do want to make it possible to lock down which files are loaded relative to the profile and which use the searchpath. I agree this could causes issues. I would look at having some kind of prefix to filenames to mark them as 'only look in the resource path' this could be by prefixing the paths with an '@' eg. !<FileTransform> {src: @/lg10.spi1d} this would resolve to only paths in the resource path anything without an '@' would look through the search path (in order). * resourcepath - is relative to the profile, either embedded or on disk * searchpath - is a ':' ordered list of directories to search for file references * file references - are absolute paths / '@' in the resourcepath / or somewhere in the searchpath Want to know what's inside your .ocio.zip config? Easy, just unzip it-1 for fixed directory layout, I think it's important that this is configurable. I can't say how different places will want to setup their pipe. Configurable decision points should be left configurable ( with sensible defaults and examples ;) ). I think it's important for a process to validate the packaging of a profile. I was hoping for something like: Package up a profile $> ociopacakge source.ocio packaged.ocio This would package up all the absolute and resourcepaths into a packaged ocio profile. Package up a shot profile $> ociopackage --resolve-searchpath source.ocio packaged.ocio This would resolve the searchpath and package up any found files and these would be given '@' references in the packaged.ocio Unpack a profile $> ociopackage -x packaged.ocio ~/tmp/ I'm a lot more in favour of a single file with embedded ascii or binary blobs at the bottom. It's quite easy for someone unzip a dir remove a lut and re-zip it and circumvent any validation process. I also I think people will be checking these into version control systems (aka easy setup publish system) being able to open profiles in a text editor / web browser and reading the header would be really nice rather than having to unzip to check stuff out. I'm happy to code up a prototype of this in a branch if people are keen to see that idea. On a slighly different topic, I think it will be preferable whenCan you elaborate on this? I don't completely get what you mean, does the '@' in file reference help distinguish between local and global? .malcolm
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Re: Reference !<Colorspace>
Malcolm Humphreys <malcolmh...@...>
Mostly I see this is for notation, right now profiles infer that all to_reference and from_reference entires go to/from the same reference space. But I don't need a reference space in 'roles:' or even in 'colorspaces:' for ocio to work. This really isn't a problem if all your reference spaces are the same for all profiles across jobs. It gets just a little murky when you open the possibilities of different connection spaces in different profiles.
Well thats another option, enforce scene_linear as the reference space for all profiles (I would recommend using that as the working space anyhow). I'm just not sure if that will make it tricker for uptake at smaller shops which would be mostly working in some type of display linear pipe.
I would remove it till it is needed.
Thats not so good if people are sending around profiles with out docs.. 'hmm this profile seems funky but I don't know why, oh and the docs are out of date..' moments.
I agree I think having it as a normal colorspace is good, just if there was a specific tag at the top of the profile which told which colorspace was the references space. We could also barf when that colorspace isn't defined in the 'colorspaces:' section. The use case I keep thinking about is dealing with two profiles with different reference spaces, but maybe this is just over complicating things for where we are right now.
This was actually: reference:to:Transform()
Depending on your thoughts about the reference space we might want some other naming. I was wondering could we rename the <GroupTransform> children param to something like 'items', 'transforms'. (maybe I'm too pedantic parent -> children relationships look like a trees while lists, items etc have an order) .malcolm
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Re: Reference !<Colorspace>
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
Rod,
Answering your short email with a long essay... (just had a coffee) My concern is when/where we want to have different primaries onI understand your concern. If we wanted to solve this today -- leveraging OCIO -- the simplest approach would be to use naming conventions to denote differences between shows. Colorspaces would only have identical names if they were cross-show compatible, and all other 'show specific' spaces would be uniquely named at a facility level. Say, for example, you had Show A which used rec709 primaries, and Show B which used P3 primaries. You could define 2 profiles: Show A OCIO Profile: (r709 primaries) -colorspace: lin_709 transform: none -colorspace: lin_p3 transform to_reference : p3_to_r709.mtx Show B OCIO Profile: (p3 primaries) -colorspace: lin_p3 transform: none -colorspace: lin_709 transform to_reference: r709_to_p3.mtx Then, when you encountered an image on disk, as long as you could uniquely identify it as belonging to either lin_709, or lin_p3 it could be loaded, and work sensibly on either show. This has minimal ambiguity, and doesnt rely on any 'dynamic' conversions. If you load an image on Show A, it uses Show A's profile. Load it on Show B, it uses Show B's profile. If, during production on "B", you encounter an unforseen color issue you can tweak B profile, and show A will stay locked off in its own sandbox. Ideal interoperability ruined? Yes. But do both shows deliver? Yes. :) ... Load it on show C? (which doesnt know about lin_p3 or lin_709)? It wont know about that color space, and will throw an error rather than silently guessing at an answer. Also a good thing. Of course, this approach relies on your facility creating inoperable profiles (and not introducing ambiguous naming), but it's already in your power to do so. The fleshed out Imageworks OCIO profiles we'll be releasing later this week (hopefully) are NOT the only way of working. We would of course presume that any large facility would use prefer to used a completely customized workflow. But, our hope is that our profiles may be useful at small facilities where they just want a reasonable answer right out of the box. We would be delighted if other studios or vfx shops distributed their OCIO profiles, and would love to roll them in as default examples as well! What better way to learn about alternate approaches to color management? Rod- if you're allowed to say publicly - how many sets of color primaries are we discussing here? Is it a handful of predefined options, or do you foresee a situation where you'll have dozens of sets of primaries (and/or white points) being used on a single show? How are you managing this problem currently? As we've discussed before, if you truly won't know about what sets of primaries will be allowed until runtime, or if we're talking about more than a handful of primaries, then the only sensible option is to use a dynamic colorspace plugin API. (which will let you create transforms on the fly.) I am still very enthusiastic about adding this, though being realistic on time, I don't believe we'll be able to get to it before the new year. At SPI we do have more than one set of primaries in use, but very rarely within the same show. When we do need to interchange image assets between shows, we often create a custom colorspace suited for that purpose. This flexibility / explicitness is often preferable to doing the "right" thing automatically, as "right" often depends on context. A simple example: Say you have a texture asset (diffuse color?) from our P3 primary show, and you want to re-use it on a 709 show. What conversion is most appropriate? If you want to preserve the absolute look (such as for a low saturation blue skydome), probably a matrix transform is justified. But, what if you want to use it as a source texture, where it will undergo further image manipulation? The P3->709 conversion has a substantial potential to introduce clipping, if it's going to undergo further color correction anyways, loading it in 'raw' may be preferable. I'll ignore related topic of white point adaptation, but I could forsee some circumstances where you would want to preserve the look of the original white point, and other circumstances where one may prefer to have equal code values in p3 map to equal code values in r709. Â So the reference space is probably a particular RGBI am curious... it sounds like you're grasping for some sort of system where the reference colorspaces are tagged with enough information so that OCIO is able to build up transforms between unrelated profiles automatically. Am I correct here? What sort of information would be required to be tagged on the reference space to allow this? Unfortunately, in VFX work it's quite common to use a set of primaries that are only defined implicitly (in that they're a 1D transformation away from a log scan). If I were to link up one of these VFX workflows with a colorimetricly 'pure' CG profile, what should happen? If a 1d-linearized log scan *is* the only definition of the reference colorspace, what could the OCIO profile to be tagged with to allow you to undo it? A film stock? Note: The Academy's work with IIF is an attempt to answer this question, and the complexities they have encountered with the IDTs + RRTs very much demonstrate how hard this issue is to solve with a "one size fits all" approach. Hell, it's required a new film scanning spec! Wrapping this whole complex issue into "naming" is a rather tidy solution. Color management is in many ways a huge can of worms, and the question of whether OCIO will -- or should -- succeed is very much still up in the air. It's my strong belief that to give OCIO 1.0 its best chance at becoming a success, it's preferable to keep it as close as possible in philosophy to the workflow we've validated at SPI these last years. We've had successful visual effect shows and successful animated features that have relied on completely different approaches to color. Different configurations. Same library. Same plugins. This approach is what we want to share with OCIO. From my perspective, there's minimal amount of SPI-ness left in OCIO at this point. And the major conceptual assumptions we've made are probably best left in there, lest we screw up the good in pursuit of perfect. I have no misconceptions that OCIO will solve 100% of the color problems out there, but if it's flexible enough to let the majority of facilities (both big and small) plug into it, then it will at least be a step in the right direction. You are allowed to strongly disagree. I like learning new things. :) -- Jeremy
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Re: Reference !<Colorspace>
Rod Bogart <bog...@...>
My concern is when/where we want to have different primaries on
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different shows. So the reference space is probably a particular RGB space (rather than XYZ), and it is not obvious what that is by examining a to_linear function. In the SPI examples, there was never more than one set of primaries in use, but that seems unrealistic for the future. Right? RGB
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure what promoting the reference colorspace to something
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Review: OCIO namespace update
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
OCIO namespace #define is now configured using the CMAKE
configure_file mojo. This makes namespace errors far less likely, as it's baked into the header that's a part of make_install. commits: d00581c9373806b85416115a58488d57a12be04a
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Review: Updated cmake_minimum_required to 2.8
Jeremy Selan <jeremy...@...>
We already required cmake 2.8 (for ExternalProject usage), now this is explicit.
commits: 949855cca45431a6e813ac3b6f3688de0799f379
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