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Re: blackbody and daylight functions

Mitch Prater
 

Aha - here's the one I was thinking of: https://www2.cs.duke.edu/courses/cps124/spring08/assign/07_papers/p91-preetham.pdf
There's also a similar night sky paper: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~henrik/papers/nightsky/nightsky.pdf

A quick search also turned up this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265111517_REAL-TIME_DAYLIGHT_SKY_COLOR_MODELING


Re: blackbody and daylight functions

Larry Gritz
 

We are always interested in PRs that propose and implement new standard OSL functions that are broadly helpful to shader writers. Shy of making an "official" standard library function, we can also simply include sample shader code with the OSL distribution (this may be better for something that's useful, but that perhaps we can't agree that there is one true way to do it).

As Mitch alludes to, there are several computational models that have been published for sky color, and they are usually more complex than merely the raw daylight color temperature -- they are a complex function of position on earth, time of day and year, direction, and atmospheric conditions. These have even been implemented in OSL (though I don't know if any are published). I don't know what the debate would be like in choosing one that everybody could agree on, but if there was consensus that a particularly good one should be part of the language, or like I said as an example for us to ship even if not a language feature per se, we would be happy to receive that submission.


On Jan 9, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Mitch Prater <mprater@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Excellent question Chris - thanks for raising it!

The short, and I believe "standard" answer to such questions, is that if OSL doesn't currently provide functionality you desire, you can implement it yourself either using OSL shader code, or by adding that functionality to the language so that it can be incorporated into the OSL repository, or just within your own rendering system implementation if you prefer to not make that public.

The long answer is that color science and its application within lighting, shading, and rendering systems is a fascinating topic and obviously one that deserves a great deal of attention. OSL is fundamentally however, a programming language only. Questions of what color is, how it's controlled, represented, processed, displayed, and finally perceived is more within the purview of the CIE, Open Color IO, and the implementers of your rendering system. OSL in its current form represents color as a 3-tuple, so its ability to process color is constrained to quantities that can be represented by that data type (and the underlying assumptions about the orthogonality of those values). But, since shading is fundamentally a process of generating color, it's absolutely valid to raise the question of how much of the definition of color should be a part of the language and how to manage and implement it. As spectral representations of light make their way out of research and into production renderers, this topic deserves more discussion.

But I digress. The ability to specify a "daylight color" as a function of a temperature value certainly sounds useful. It does bring up the question as to what the atmospheric filtering consists of, and whether you'd want the ability to control that instead. The sun's output is actually constant, so its illumination on the ground is completely a function of the atmospheric conditions and the sun's path through it, so using a temperature value might not be the most useful physically-based control. Pixar had implemented just such an atmospheric light source many years ago. I seem to recall it having been presented at Siggraph, but I can't say for sure.

mitch

--
Larry Gritz





Re: blackbody and daylight functions

Mitch Prater
 
Edited

Excellent question Chris - thanks for raising it!

The short, and I believe "standard" answer to such questions, is that if OSL doesn't currently provide functionality you desire, you can implement it yourself either using OSL shader code, or by adding that functionality to the language so that it can be incorporated into the OSL repository, or just within your own rendering system implementation if you prefer to not make that public.

The long answer is that color science and its application within lighting, shading, and rendering systems is a fascinating topic and obviously one that deserves a great deal of attention. OSL is fundamentally however, a programming language only. Questions of what color is, how it's controlled, represented, processed, displayed, and finally perceived is more within the purview of the CIE, Open Color IO, and the implementers of your rendering system. OSL in its current form represents color as a 3-tuple, so its ability to process color is constrained to quantities that can be represented by that data type (and the underlying assumptions about the orthogonality of those values). But, since shading is fundamentally a process of generating color, it's absolutely valid to raise the question of how much of the definition of color should be a part of the language and how to manage and implement it. As spectral representations of light make their way out of research and into production renderers, this topic deserves more discussion.

But I digress. The ability to specify a "daylight color" as a function of a temperature value certainly sounds useful. It does bring up the question as to what the atmospheric filtering consists of, and whether you'd want the ability to control that instead. The sun's output is actually constant, so its illumination on the ground is completely a function of the atmospheric conditions and the sun's path through it, so using a temperature value might not be the most useful physically-based control. Pixar had implemented just such an atmospheric light source many years ago. I seem to recall it having been presented at Siggraph, but I can't say for sure.

mitch


blackbody and daylight functions

chrisbrejon@...
 

Hi everyone,

first time posting here. First of all, best wishes for 2021. ;-)
I am a lighting lead at illumination mac guff and our developers are currently implementing OSL
in our proprietary render engine, which is awesome. ;-)

I had a question about the blackbody function if that's okay with you. I have recently been explained that
for higher temperatures we might want daylight and not black body values.Think of it as being the delta between
a pure black body and the fact that in reality we have the sun + atmosphere filtering the light.
so for Displays we tend to match the daylight locus and most colour spaces are daylight whitepoints.

I found this information (shared by Kevin Wheatley) quite fascinating because we have been investigating
blackbody values for the past months and we did notice that something felt "off" for high values (like blue sky).
If you're interesting, here is an article on the topic and the definition by the CIE.

So my question would be if there is any interest to implement a daylight function into OSL ?
A bit like what you did with the blackbody_rgb function and the BB_TABLE.

As you can tell, I am no developer so I apologize for any noob question or misconception I'd have. ;-)
Regards,
Chris


Re: OSL API Documentation

Reza Aarabi
 

I got you
I thought I can not find the C++ API Documentation. :)
thanks though

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 4:56 PM Larry Gritz <lg@...> wrote:
I'm not trying to make excuses for our lack of documentation, just trying to explain it. 

The "end users" are the people writing shaders, and so we do publish the language spec (and hopefully, are working toward more OSL programming tutorial material). The rest of the "end user" documentation is kind of pushed to the renderers, because OSL is embedded in rendering products as a library so the way it's exposed to users will vary a lot from renderer to renderer.

But the basic reason that there is currently no separate documentation for the C++ APIs is that they aren't something that ordinary end users (people who write shaders) ever need to know about. Those APIs are only of interest to the authors of renderers who wish to embed OSL into their renderer.  We're trying to improve this, but that's the basic reason why the current "documentation" is just the comments in the headers themselves, and the code of the sample programs like testshade and test render.

-- lg


On Jan 7, 2021, at 3:09 PM, Reza Aarabi <madoodia@...> wrote:

Hi guys

Just wanted to know there is any Doxygen style documentation for OSL API?

I wanted to read about some C++ classes (like RendererService) but couldn't find the good Detail Description about it,
there is any link for C++ API classes of OSL?
please share with me
thanks

--
Larry Gritz






--


---------------------
--= Reza Aarabi =--


Re: OSL API Documentation

Larry Gritz
 

I'm not trying to make excuses for our lack of documentation, just trying to explain it. 

The "end users" are the people writing shaders, and so we do publish the language spec (and hopefully, are working toward more OSL programming tutorial material). The rest of the "end user" documentation is kind of pushed to the renderers, because OSL is embedded in rendering products as a library so the way it's exposed to users will vary a lot from renderer to renderer.

But the basic reason that there is currently no separate documentation for the C++ APIs is that they aren't something that ordinary end users (people who write shaders) ever need to know about. Those APIs are only of interest to the authors of renderers who wish to embed OSL into their renderer.  We're trying to improve this, but that's the basic reason why the current "documentation" is just the comments in the headers themselves, and the code of the sample programs like testshade and test render.

-- lg


On Jan 7, 2021, at 3:09 PM, Reza Aarabi <madoodia@...> wrote:

Hi guys

Just wanted to know there is any Doxygen style documentation for OSL API?

I wanted to read about some C++ classes (like RendererService) but couldn't find the good Detail Description about it,
there is any link for C++ API classes of OSL?
please share with me
thanks

--
Larry Gritz





Re: OSL API Documentation

Reza Aarabi
 

Any Idea?


On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 3:09 PM Reza Aarabi via lists.aswf.io <madoodia=gmail.com@...> wrote:
Hi guys

Just wanted to know there is any Doxygen style documentation for OSL API?

I wanted to read about some C++ classes (like RendererService) but couldn't find the good Detail Description about it,
there is any link for C++ API classes of OSL?
please share with me
thanks



--


---------------------
--= Reza Aarabi =--


OSL Docs

Mitch Prater
 

Hi All,

I've created a temporary github project/repo for collecting any OSL documentation we're working on: https://github.com/mprater/osl-doc

I've never managed an on-line or collaborative documentation project before, so this is the best I could come up with. If there's a better way to go about this please let me know. I've initialized the repository with the work we've already done.

Please consider contributing useful information you may have.

Thanks, mitch


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OSL API Documentation

Reza Aarabi
 

Hi guys

Just wanted to know there is any Doxygen style documentation for OSL API?

I wanted to read about some C++ classes (like RendererService) but couldn't find the good Detail Description about it,
there is any link for C++ API classes of OSL?
please share with me
thanks


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Time to sign the new CLAs

Larry Gritz
 

The new CLAs for the OSL project, which were approved by the companies that were dithering as well as by the OSL TSC, are now ready for signing.

If you think you'll be making any PRs to OSL (even the tiniest thing, and even if you signed the old Imageworks CLAs before), now is the time to get your orgs to (a) e-sign, (b) designate a "CLA manager" (the person who can add or delete authorized submitters without needing a new agreement signed), and (c) have their CLA managers authorize the GitHub IDs of the likely contributors.

Have your signing authority go to https://corporate.v1.easycla.lfx.linuxfoundation.org/

We will soon (in a few weeks? timing TBD by the TSC) transfer the GitHub repo from the "imageworks" account to the "AcademySoftwareFoundation" account. Once that is done, the CLA checking bot will make it impossible for us to merge patches from anybody it doesn't think is authorized by CLA.

If you are not employed by a company that as rights to your IP output, then you can instead go yourself to sign an individual CLA instead of the corporate one.


--
Larry Gritz
lg@larrygritz.com


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Every other week meeting of the OSL TSC.

Meeting Agenda / Notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yf0bG6eoE2EvKZBNZX3nskdTvu99ADTDTNOknCDJd1I/

Confirm this meeting invite is still valid by finding the meeting at https://lists.aswf.io/calendar.

Join Zoom Meeting https://zoom.us/j/100511909

Meeting ID: 100 511 909

One tap mobile +16465588656,,100511909# US (New York) +13126266799,,100511909# US (Chicago)

Dial by your location +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose) +1 253 215 8782 US +1 301 715 8592 US +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) 877 369 0926 US Toll-free 855 880 1246 US Toll-free +1 587 328 1099 Canada +1 647 374 4685 Canada +1 647 558 0588 Canada +1 778 907 2071 Canada +1 438 809 7799 Canada 855 703 8985 Canada Toll-free Meeting ID: 100 511 909 Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/acBVrM6HWR

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Cancelled Event: OSL TSC meeting ( every other week ) - Thursday, 24 December 2020 #cal-cancelled

osl-dev@lists.aswf.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Cancelled: OSL TSC meeting ( every other week )

This event has been cancelled.

When:
Thursday, 24 December 2020
2:00pm to 3:00pm
(UTC-08:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:
https://zoom.us/j/100511909

Organizer: Chris Kulla ckulla@...

Description:

Every other week meeting of the OSL TSC.

Meeting Agenda / Notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yf0bG6eoE2EvKZBNZX3nskdTvu99ADTDTNOknCDJd1I/

Confirm this meeting invite is still valid by finding the meeting at https://lists.aswf.io/calendar.

Join Zoom Meeting https://zoom.us/j/100511909

Meeting ID: 100 511 909

One tap mobile +16465588656,,100511909# US (New York) +13126266799,,100511909# US (Chicago)

Dial by your location +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose) +1 253 215 8782 US +1 301 715 8592 US +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) 877 369 0926 US Toll-free 855 880 1246 US Toll-free +1 587 328 1099 Canada +1 647 374 4685 Canada +1 647 558 0588 Canada +1 778 907 2071 Canada +1 438 809 7799 Canada 855 703 8985 Canada Toll-free Meeting ID: 100 511 909 Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/acBVrM6HWR

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